Cipollone began his committee interview Friday morning and did not answer CNN’s questions when he entered the chamber. His appearance is the result of months of negotiations between his lawyers and the commission over what issues can be discussed. He had previously met with the committee informally in April. Cipollone was among the few people who spent time with Trump as he watched the Capitol uprising unfold on television from a dining room outside the Oval Office, according to two sources familiar with the committee’s investigation. The committee heard from other witnesses who said Cipollone, along with other senior Trump advisers such as Ivanka Trump and Dan Scavino, were with the President at various points during that time. Like others who were present and testified before the committee, Cipollone could help shed light on Trump’s state of mind as the violence took place. Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, for example, testified that she overheard a conversation in the dining room at one point about rioters chanting “hang Mike Pence.” Cipollone’s presence in the dining room — which several witnesses have described to the committee — underscores why the committee is seeking his testimony on the record as a key witness. Cipollone’s concerns about executive privilege surrounding his role as White House counsel could lead him to limit his cooperation with the committee, according to sources familiar with his thinking. Trump did on Jan. 6, who he spoke to and how he reacted to the violence in real time. The committee is relying heavily on witness testimony to do so because of an hours-long gap in White House records during that time period, CNN previously reported. Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., a member of the committee, dismissed claims of privilege that Cipollone could confirm, telling CNN earlier this week. “Well, executive privilege is held by the current President, who has not supported it when it comes to learning information about the January 6 plot,” Lofgren said. “Attorney-client privilege could be asserted. But, remember, the presidency is his client, not Mr. Trump as an individual.” But Lofgren confirmed: “I am confident that we will get information that will benefit him and also respect his loyalty to these principals that he loves.” Cipollone’s name has repeatedly been mentioned during the commission’s hearings so far that he is considered a key witness by the commission. Cipollone was in a key Oval Office meeting on January 3, 2021, when Trump was considering replacing Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen with DOJ environmental lawyer Jeffrey Clark because Clark, unlike Rosen, was willing to use federal law enforcement powers to support baseless allegations of voter fraud. At that meeting, Rosen and Cipollone disparaged Clark’s credentials for the job and flatly rejected a draft letter Clark had written that falsely claimed the Justice Department had found evidence of election fraud. Rosen’s deputy, Richard Donoghue, testified at a committee hearing that Cipollone said of the drafted letter at that meeting, “this letter that this guy wants to send, this letter is a murder-suicide agreement. It’s going to hurt everyone who touches her. And we It must have nothing to do with this letter. I don’t want to see this letter again.” The committee disclosed that in its earlier, informal conversation with Cipollone, Cipollone told the select committee that he “intervened when he heard that Mr. Clark was meeting with the president on legal matters without his knowledge, which was strictly against White House policy ». Hutchinson testified that Cipollone was against Trump calling for his supporters to march on Capitol Hill in his speech on the morning of Jan. 6, and was particularly against Trump joining his supporters on Capitol Hill. Hutchinson said Cipollone told her on Jan. 3, “We have to make sure that doesn’t happen, that would legally be a terrible idea for us. We have serious legal concerns if we go to the Capitol that day.” When violence erupted on Capitol Hill, Cipollone walked into the office of Trump’s former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, according to Hutchinson, and asked to speak with Trump about doing something to intervene. Hutchinson testified that Meadows told Cipollone that the former President didn’t want to do anything and Cipollone said something about Mark, “something has to be done or people are going to die, blood is going to be on your body** *hands. ‘ Cipollone wanted Trump to say in his Jan. 7, 2021 speech that rioters should be prosecuted and called violent, but Hutchinson said those initial lines did not make it into the final version of the speech Trump delivered. Hutchinson added that from what she understood at the time, the reason people like Cipollone wanted that language in there was because there was “a lot of concern about potentially invoking the 25th amendment.” The committee released video testimony of Jared Kushner who says Cipollone and his team “were always saying, ‘Oh, we’re going to resign. We’re not going to be here if that happens, if that happens.” Kushner said, “I kind of took it up to whine to be honest with you.” Before Cipollone’s interview began, the committee had made a public push to get him to testify under oath. “Our committee is certain that Donald Trump does not want Mr. Cipollone to testify here,” Republican Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, who serves as the committee’s vice chair, said during the committee’s fourth hearing that ended on 21 June. “We believe the American people deserve to hear from Mr. Cipollone in person,” he added. “He will have to appear before this committee and we are working to secure his testimony.” This story and headline have been updated with additional developments on Friday. CNN’s Andrew Millman and Kaitlan Collins contributed to this report.
